Pokemon Blue "Catch all 151" Speedrun

[In_Pieces]

I don't think the diploma is needed at all really. It's not an actual item(if my memory serves me right) and it's just stating what will already be said after the elite four is beaten. Not including the credits, the end should be the message that oak will give when he rates your pokedex in the hall of fame. You beat the game, and it shows right there that you "caught them all".

As far as the unknown dungeon is concerned, you can enter it at anytime via walk through walls glitch. I don't think it would help though, as you can catch or glitch everything thats in their, including mewtwo. So it seems like it would just waste time.

[gia]

And I don't think oak's rating is needed. You caught em all when you caught em all, having to prove so during the run makes you waste time. After the run is over (timing is over) you can open the pokedex to prove verifiers you completed it, get the rating or whatever the runner wants.

Of course if "unlock hall of fame" is required for 100%, and the last thing you do is beat the elite four the rating would appear during the run. Or if it is required to roll the credits once again after having completed the rest of goals in case you had beaten it already before, which I don't like the idea but is what you seem to propose.

[Thomaz]

As far as I'm concerned, I'll go for 100%, which means catching all Pokés and getting all badges as well (seeing as you can skip two) and beating the League. I might make a separate video to illustrate the diploma, but I think beating the League will be enough. Actually, now that I think about it, using the rulling of catching all = finished game, you could skip even more badges. Technically, you could skip all but Misty (and Surge because of Fly being so useful. :O) and perhaps Koga because of spots where Surf is needed like Cinnabar/Seafoam Coast. >_>

I agree with entering UD being slower, because the only few things you'll find out there are really not worth it (from the top of my head, Rhydon and Mewtwo? The rest can all be gotten some place elsewhere or only need one to four RCs to level up; Rhydon does take too long, unless you glitch it).

And yay, I finally finished a few segments that got me stuck, so I'm moving on again.

Edit: after checking back, I think glitching Rhydon is virtually impossible, unless you catch a Pokémon above level 100 and level it to 0, but lol, that takes about 100 RCs or so versus the 14 you would otherwise use. However, I agree that in a SS, UD might actually be good, but that would require either the WtW, which is not allowed (save needed),  or beating the League, which autosaves, so regardless, no go.

[Jacob91]

EDIT: I don't think any more that the unknown dungeon is worth it, after doing tests I've discovered that the unknown dungeon saves a cumulative 5 minutes total and consumes considerably more than that.

Also, Thomaz; I agree with your completion criterion. But I have a question to ask - are you going to Silph Co. for the master ball? That seems to be the only thing I'm intentionally using in my strategy that I KNOW costs time that I'm keeping in for sanity's sake. Even with heavy segmentation, it seems like I'll be relieved enough to find the pokemon I'm looking for at the right level in a reasonable number of steps, let alone having to worry about catching it immediately with one ultra ball. Maybe someday, but I'm just not ready for that kind of tedium. And also, thomaz, the game autosaves when you encounter 'M, and that's not a forced save, so does that count against you? I think games should be judged by an individual basis - it makes no sense to institute arbitrary restrictions like a single segment can not continue after you're forced to watch the credits and there isn't any way around it.


EDIT2: I was wondering though, because I'm still considering the unknown dungeon in some ways (I won't have completely counted it out until I've timed it thoroughly against the alternative) If I was to complete the definition of 100% (In my opinion, should be 8 badges, elite four beaten, all 151 pokemon caught), would it not matter which I finished first? For example, if I caught the 151 and then fought the elite four then the run would end after the hall of fame induction ceremony. But couldn't the run also finish if I saved a few pokemon for after the elite four and timing would stop after I caught the last one?

I am considering this because it's possible to use the trainer-fly glitch to yield a primeape or possibly another poke that requires many rare candies to evolve. The walk through walls glitch also consumes more time than this method, so it could feasibly be faster.

[Thomaz]

Yes, I am going to Silph & Co. The Master Ball makes everything so much easier. With it, you could potentially catch about four Pokémon in one segment (with correct levels and such), without it, it would be hard to enough to catch just one Pokémon unless you weaken it (= more turns lost).

I probably will go the tower as well, but I'm not sure yet. Glitching a Snorlax wouldn't be easy, but at least it would skip the Tower. I guess either Moltres or Zapdos could be used for Snorlax.


Yes, I suppose you could beat the League and then enter the dungeon and have the game stop after catching the last Pokémon.

About autosaving vs M, can't you just turn of the game after that? I don't remember it autosaving really.

[Blubbler]

Be careful:  I lost a copy of Red to too much glitching with Missingno.  It actually had to be mailed to Nintendo for a replacement copy!

Even MissingNo. cannot overwrite read-only memory.

[Aftermath]

And also[...] the game autosaves when you encounter 'M, and that's not a forced save, so does that count against you? I think games should be judged by an individual basis - it makes no sense to institute arbitrary restrictions like a single segment can not continue after you're forced to watch the credits and there isn't any way around it.

It's fine to autosave, they're unavoidable and won't DQ a SS run. As long as you're continuing after them, there won't be a problem.

There isn't a restriction on whether or not you can continue after the credits. For example, the Star Fox 64 All Medals run needs to play through the game 3 times in order to get all of the medals, so after the credits, he just goes back and continues the game as normal, he resets before venom each time, and it's a single segment. So there's no need to end with the Elite 4. You'll have to ask mikwuyama if the credits/main menu time will count against you though.

I don't think you'll have a problem staying within the single segment guidelines as long as you aren't manually resetting to the main menu.

Also, just my random opinion, but seeing as how this would pretty much be the 100% category, I'd go with option B for completion criterion. The diploma isn't a real item iirc, and it sounds like there's precedent with the Colosseum run to have it end when the last pokemon is caught. You could probably include going to get the diploma immediately afterwards, just so that the video ends in a logical place for the viewer.


EDIT: after watching the SF64 run I referenced, it seems that it is allowable to reset the game and keep it SS if resetting is necessary for a timesaving trick. Of course, you'll have to clearly explain the trick and ask mikwuyama about it (I do not envy that guy's job here).

[Thomaz]

I agree. Just don't use WtW and still say it's SS. 

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I think using WtW is too time consuming or saves so little time it's not worth it. Let's go over what I think are the +'s and -'s:

Positive:
- It skips the Tower, because you'd go directly to Silph & Co;
- It skips the Fresh Water;
- It skips both Snorlaxes (technically, it doesn't, but if you skip the Tower you won't get the Poké Flute and thus have to glitch it);
- You can use the Bike to travel to Cinnabar Island faster;
- You can use the Bike to travel to the E4 faster and also skip Gary and the use of Strength.

Negative:
- Poisoning the Flyer has to be done during the removal of Safari Zone steps because I use Mew and he is at level 7; this means you'll have about 100~ steps before he's KO'd if hit by a non-damaging Poison-causing attack;
- Depositing the Pokémon might cause trouble with the box amounts and doing it twice (if you decide to do that) at that; also, you have to withdraw your main fighter too, unless Mew is your main fighter, but that leaves his attacks to be desired, because of the HMs. Unless you use another HM whore, but that means one more Pokémon withdrawn;
- I catch around five Pokémon near Pallet Town (fishing + patch of the grass down-right) so after Biking to Cinnabar, I'd have to get back to Pallet Town sooner or later, unless I get those someplace elsewhere which means Tangela has to be glitched or traded;
- I buy a lot of things in Celadon Mart so while I'm there, I might as well get the Fresh Water and the Poké Doll;
- I catch about four Pokémon on route to Victory Road and those can only be gotten before the dungeon, so I'd need to defeat Gary regardless, unless I get them elsewhere (Seaking can be leveled up from Goldeen but takes a lot of RCs, Magikarp can be gotten ten levels higher here, high level Sandshrew and Fearow are here too which saves on RC cost);
- I catch a lot of Pokémon in Victory Road, so moving around will not take so much time. It's a pity I need Strength, but a la, nothing I can do about that.

Of course, this is all from my perspective of the route I use. It may be different for you, depending on your route.

[Jacob91]

Um, this is only speculation (As I've never done it before), but what about the potential time saved by using the WtW glitch to enter the power plant? That would cancel out having to ever fight the trainers on route 9.

Also, I'm curious as to why you need the fresh water. Couldn't you use the trick to bypass the saffron guards? It seems much faster IMO, but I'm not sure of it works with every guard, (truth be told, I've only seen it done on youtube.. with one guard).

I'm currently doing tests to figure out my route, which is completely tentative at this point. I'm experimenting with consolidation at the moment to simplify my route.

[Thomaz]

I wonder. You only battle two trainers on that route I think and you (I) have to stop by for fishing as well anyway. Granted, that can be done afterwards. Though, now that I think about it, you could enter the Power Plant backwards.

But a trick to bypass the guard? I don't know off one except for the bicycle one.

[Jacob91]

I saw it a long time ago - I can't find the video demonstrating it, but it's a simple trick. Immediately when you pass in front of the guard's view, press the opposite direction on the control pad to face the door you entered. If done right, you'll be able to walk the other way when he's done talking about how parched he is.

But I've never actually done it, only seen it done. I would test it, but I don't really have access to a file that's at that point at the moment. I can surely get access, though.

I'll edit with whether or not I was successful.

EDIT: Disregard it, I wasn't able to make it work. However, it does seem to work when done from within Saffron going any other direction, so I think that was what the video I watched was showing.

EDIT: Made a draft of the tests that are in order to complete before I can start putting together the fastest route I can - I'm at 73 Tests and Counting (Ouch)