Beating the Baldur's Gate speed run

[Rainault]

After watching the speed run through Baldur's Gate with a Fighter/Thief, my first thought was, "I think a Fighter/Mage could do better." My reasoning? Access to scrolls and wands. The beauty of it is that you can use scrolls and wands while wearing armor.

So I'm in the process of speed running Baldur's Gate with an Elf Fighter/Mage, and I must say that it's working out very well. The most obvious difficulty is that I can't use Stealth, which actually made me tempted to use a Fighter/Mage/Thief at first. However, you can buy three scrolls of Invisibility at High Hedge, and I've been using them as efficiently as I can. Also, after I'm done with the Cloakwood Mines, I'll be able to afford the Ring of Invisibility at Ulgoth's Beard, which has six charges if memory serves. That should be plenty to get me through the rest of the game.

For ability scores, I put 19 into Dex, 17 Con, 9 Int, 8 Wis, 18 Cha, and the rest into Str. I'm casting only one spell from memorization and the rest from scrolls, so I never need to learn spells from scrolls, making Int unnecessary. The reasoning for my other ability scores should be obvious.

I've just finished the Bandit Camp with an approximate time of 33 minutes. The current best made it to my current point at 32 minutes 19 seconds. In Chapter 1, I did a few unnecessary XP-gaining side quests. I can eliminate those in the actual run, and that will save me a few minutes. All in all, I'm pretty confident that I can claim the top spot for fastest Baldur's Gate speed run. I'll post more updates as I make progress.

[slYnki]

I've never even played this game before, but I wish you luck on your run o.o

[Bueno]

I did allready beat the game under an hour (after watching the current speedrun by julien) but I was too lazy to record a perfect run. In my opinion, the current thief/war strategy is the best way to speedrun baldur's gate, it just need optimization. Here's a few tips I discovered :
- don't forget the diamond in the tree at the beginning
- skip ALL the unecessary items
- skip ALL the sidequests
- don't buy unecessary potions
- use the zoning trick to travel faster
- skip the potion of liberty from talantyr next to beregost,
cause even if get caught by the spider traps you'll save time.
- war/thief is better than thief for three reasons: stats boost for the cahracter creation, war have more hp and they can equip the long bow you get in the bandit camp, which is highly recommended for the baldur part
- the hardest part of the speedrun is the fight with the dopplegangers because you have to take care of the npc whitout dying yourself, I didn't find a way to be 100% successfull, this part is too much random (that's why I gave up recording it)
- the sarevok part can get cheesy too, not because of sarevok himself but because of all the npc who are moving around the traps (don't walk on that skull !!!!)

[Rainault]

A tactic I'm going to use as a Fighter/Mage against the Greater Doppelgangers is a Wand of Sleep and a Wand of Paralyzation. They work surprisingly well. The Wand of Sleep should take down most of the Doppelgangers, and the Wand of Paralyzation should bring down the rest. It's a similar tactic to one I used when beating Baldur's Gate with a solo mage.

As for skipping the Potion of Freedom at High Hedge, that may be true for a Fighter/Thief, but as a Fighter/Mage, I have to stop by High Hedge anyway for three scrolls of Invisibility and three scrolls of Mirror Image (that's how I avoid the traps in the Nashkel Mines). Since I'm buying at High Hedge anyway, it takes only a few seconds more to buy the Potion of Freedom. I also buy 20 Acid Arrows to use against Mulahey and Davaeorn (high damage, and it gets around Protection from Normal Missiles). So the High Hedge stop is almost required for me.

[julien]

I did allready beat the game under an hour (after watching the current speedrun by julien) but I was too lazy to record a perfect run. In my opinion, the current thief/war strategy is the best way to speedrun baldur's gate, it just need optimization. Here's a few tips I discovered :
- don't forget the diamond in the tree at the beginning
- skip ALL the unecessary items
- skip ALL the sidequests
- don't buy unecessary potions
- use the zoning trick to travel faster
- skip the potion of liberty from talantyr next to beregost,
cause even if get caught by the spider traps you'll save time.
- war/thief is better than thief for three reasons: stats boost for the cahracter creation, war have more hp and they can equip the long bow you get in the bandit camp, which is highly recommended for the baldur part
- the hardest part of the speedrun is the fight with the dopplegangers because you have to take care of the npc whitout dying yourself, I didn't find a way to be 100% successfull, this part is too much random (that's why I gave up recording it)
- the sarevok part can get cheesy too, not because of sarevok himself but because of all the npc who are moving around the traps (don't walk on that skull !!!!)

I bought the potion of liberty because I recorded the run in one segment and It's very annoying If you played through half of the game and then you get hold by a web and a spider poisens you.

I skipped the diamond because I just don't need it...got enough money by selling items I don't need.

But yeah you're right, there are a few things which could be optimised in my run

I think a run in multiple segments could be done much faster....maybe I'll try this sometime.


@Rainault: I can't imagine how a Fighter/Mage could do the run faster than a Fighter/Thief, since I'm using stealth to save a lot of time. Anyway, I'm curious to see your run.

[julien]

Hey Rainault, how's your run progressing?

I'm currently working on a second BG speed run.
Again with a Fighter/Thief, but this time as halfling instead of elf.

I'm now doing just the minium possible to get the char through the game.
That is avoiding even more enemies, collecting fewer items and less shopping.
And I'm not using Algernons Cloak in my new run. That has also the big advantage of not losing so much reputation (which really bumps the prices up)

btw: thanks for the hint with the acid arrows against Daeveron..works pretty good

The new run is probably going the be a multi-segment run. It's just to frustrating to play it in one segment. The first run was frustrating enough but this one would be even more frustrating.

[Phase Demon]

I think the F/T and F/M will do equally well.

The mage has access to an assortment of scrolls and wands and the strategically picked initial spell to kill fast and surely anyone except Sarevok. He can protect and boost himself with his magic.

The thief can avoid a useless trip to High Hedge, he can even afford not to go shopping till Sorcerous Sundries. He can count on his stealth to walk past useless encounters, disarm some of the earlier traps and walk through the others by drinking protective potions available on his path. He can quickly pickpocket the 2 critical scrolls from Slythe (his Letter from Sarevok can replace Sarevok's Diary) after charming him. He can also kill Sarevok fast with 3 or 4 backstab (Stealth + Potions of Invisibilty)

This is why I preferred to speed-run as a F/M/T. One quick weapon slot is fine as my unique kill with a weapon is Sarevok. The slow level-up is not much of a problem either. In my worst managed run I barely reached level 4/4/5. Didn't have a helmet nor an armor, not even potions or scrolls to correct my AC. Protected only against magic and fire, I managed to get Sarevok without a scratch (although all my 4 Potions and 2 scrolls of Invisibilty were used). Pickpocket is something I count a lot on to (Identify scroll from Tethtoril, Boots of Stealth, Algernon's Cloak, Haste scroll from Hareishan in Cloakwood Mines II etc...). My initial thief points are all spent on this ability. After that I concentrate exclusively on Stealth. I shop a single time in the Sorcerous Sundries and shoplift the rest from the potion shop at the back of the Merchant League.

Julien this concerns you:
If you must get the Algernon's Cloak get it after Nashkel Mines. It is counterproductive to go to the same place twice. As you go in Carnival anyway, to get the Necklace of Missiles, get also Vitiare's Potion of Master Thievery. This should let you pick the cloak without failing it.
You should also try joining the bandits instead of attacking them. As an added bonus you get to meet Tazok.  Anybody interested in killing or pickpocketing him should know that he has an Oil of Speed and a Gauntlet of Weapon Expertise.
In Cloakwood Forest III (Wyvern Area) exit directly from South, the Mines Area is also accessible from there.
In Baldur's Gate, entering and exiting the Iron Throne ground floor is enough for the Duke to send you to Candlekeep (Don't do it too fast wait a slight second inside to let the Area Script dectect you. It happened to me many times to have to backtrack from the Duke.).
Also as I said above the Letter from Sarevok in Slythe's possession will avoid you to go back there in chapter 7.
Why do you waste time killing Rieltar or the assassins in the catacomb?

[julien]

The mage has access to an assortment of scrolls and wands and..

The thief can use the wand of sleep which is very very useful in the fight against the doppelgänger in the palace.

The thief can avoid a useless trip to High Hedge

I still visit the High Hedge in my new run (right after getting the ring of wizardy) to buy some arrows of acid (for the fight against Davaeron), 3 potions of explosions and 3 potions of perception (really useful item)

from Slythe (his Letter from Sarevok can replace Sarevok's Diary) after charming him. He can also kill Sarevok fast with 3 or 4 backstab (Stealth + Potions of Invisibilty)

Ah didn't know that Slythe's letter can replace the diary.
Yeah backstabbing Sarevok is nice..I do this in my new multi segment run. Unfortunately I don't have enough potions of invisibility because I spend one during the fight against Slythe. I have to finish Sarevok off with some arrows of piercing after I backstabbed him 3 times.

Julien this concerns you.
If you must get the Algernon's Cloak get it after Nashkel Mines. It is counterproductive to go to the same place twice. As you go in Carnival anyway to get the Necklace of Missiles get also Vitiare's Potion of Master Thievery, this should let you pick the cloak without failing it.

I don't use Algernon's Cloak in my new run anymore...
But having the potion of master thievery could be quite handy to pickpocket Tazok..
edit: Just noticed that the potions of perception, which I buy at the High Hedge anyway, also give a +20% on pickpocketing.
My character starts with 35% pickpocketing, so hopefully that'll be enough the pickpocket Tazok.

You should also try joining the bandits instead of attacking them. As an added bonus you get to meet Tazok.  Anybody interested in killing or pickpocketing him should know that he has an Oil of Speed and a Gauntlet of Weapon Expertise.

In my new run I just sneak into the camp and grab the scroll from the chest without killing anybody.
That way I completely skip the fight in the big tent but has the little disadvantage that I don't get the bow. However I would only need the bow against Davaeron so this is something I can cope with.

Didn't know that Tazok has an oil of speed. Can both items be pickpocketed?

edit: seems like it's not possible to pickpocket him? He will leave immediately or attack me...

edit2: I was able to pickpocket him, using an oil of speed. He needs to pickpocketed 3 times in order to get the oil of speed, and his gauntlets can't be pickpocketed.
So there's no real benefit if I need to use an oil of speed just to pickpocket an oil of speed from him
And killing Tazok is a waste of time in my opinion.

In Cloakwood Forest III (Wyvern Area) exit directly from South, the Mines Area is also accessible from there.

Yeah also discovered this, and did this in my new run.

In Baldur's Gate, entering and exiting the Iron Throne ground floor is enough for the Duke to send you to Candlekeep (Don't do it too fast wait a slight second inside to let the Area Script dectect you. It happened to me many times to have to backtrack from the Duke.).

Really? I tried this a few times but it didn't work for me...I think I'll need to try this again.
In my new run I just go to the last floor where the enemy party is, talk to them and leave without killing them.
But going just to the ground floor would be even faster.

Why do you waste time killing Rieltar or the assassins in the catacomb?

I kill Rieltar because it's fast and gives me some EP...but that could probably left out too.. would save a few seconds.
Also in my new run, I don't kill the assassins in the catacomb.


I've just submitted my new run to Radix a few days ago, but after reading your suggestions I'm thinking about improving it again...hm

[Phase Demon]

Joining the bandits is a fast shortcut inside the camp.

When I enter Beregost from the North, I drink an Oil of Speed and run to the right. After stopping a moment to get the Potion of Invisibility and Wand of Lightning, I exit from the East to Temple and then run North to reveal Larswood.  Then go back to Beregost and exit to the Area South towards the Boots of Stealth. The Oil of Speed lasts all 3 areas because no time passes between those areas like in Baldur's Gate.
This way when I am back from Nashkel Mines and cleared Tranzig, I can directly jump to Larswood and join the bandits. Do you get to meet Tazok when you sneek inside? Because I have never tried getting there that way. Don't expect to be able to pickpocket him though. He is quasi-impossible to charm. He seems to have incredible saving throws.  I had to cheat in some Greater Malisons in order to charm him and see what in his inventory was pickpocketable.  You can get his potions and gem but not the Gauntlet. The way I do him is to charm Taugosz Khosann and let him kill him for me while I go inside his tent.

There is another potion of perception in a barrel near a tent west of Tazok's Tent. I use it to get through some traps in Cloakwood Mines II.

If you need more potions of Invisibility you can use the one I waste in the Nashkel Mines (found in a chest near the wand of lightning in Beregost, need 18/91 or 43 Lockpick to open the chest). You can steal another in the Potion Shop at the back of the Merchant League. That makes 5 potions. That should be enough. I manage it with 4 + 2 scrolls as a backup, my Thaco is worse than yours at that point so I tend to fail more often.

If you need XP. Tazok is worth 4000. And the 2 Greater Basilisks in the catacombs are 4000 each as well, an easy kill with the Necklace of Missiles if you still have it. I tend to ignore everything in Candlekeep just talk to Koveras to get arrested and get the hell out of there after grabbing 2 scrolls in the secret library.

How are you segmenting your run. Is it by chapter or what? Anyway I'm looking forward to see your next runs.

[Phase Demon]

Tazok's killing is not a waste of time if you kill him the way I told. Oil of Speeds are too rare to pass up. He stays until he dies if he can't see you to give you his leaving speech. Stay in the shadows or don't stay around to watch the fight. Anyway you waste no time as during his killing you would be inside his tent.

[julien]

Joining the bandits is a fast shortcut inside the camp.

That's true... It's also a lot saver than my route

When I enter Beregost from the North, I drink an Oil of Speed and run to the right. After stopping a moment to get the Potion of Invisibility and Wand of Lightning, I exit from the East to Temple and then run North to reveal Larswood.

Yeah I also thought about getting the Potion of Invisibility in Beregost but I think it's a waste of time. I would only need one Potion more to kill Sarevok but, as I said before, I'm finishing him off with 5 arrows of piercing, which is also quite fast.
So I don't think it's worth the detour to get another potion of invisibility.

Then go back to Beregost and exit to the Area South towards the Boots of Stealth.

I don't collect the boots in my new run. I spend all my skill points on Stealth, nothing on pickpocketing or find traps.

The Oil of Speed lasts all 3 areas because no time passes between those areas like in Baldur's Gate.

Really? That's nice...didn't know that before
Unfortunately I don't have a spare oil of speed to spend at this point in game :-(

Do you get to meet Tazok when you sneek inside? Because I have never tried getting there that way. Don't expect to be able to pickpocket him though.

No, Tazok isn't there if you haven't talked to the thieves in Larswood or Peldvale.

He is quasi-impossible to charm. He seems to have incredible saving throws.  I had to cheat in some Greater Malisons in order to charm him and see what in his inventory was pickpocketable.  You can get his potions and gem but not the Gauntlet. The way I do him is to charm Taugosz Khosann and let him kill him for me while I go inside his tent.

Not a bad idea to let Taugosz kill him..maybe I should get Algernon's Cloak in Beregost.
This way I would have one more oil of speed and could spend one in Beregost.
And another advantage of having Algernon's Cloak is that the fight against Davaeron would be much easier (like in my first run)

If you need XP. Tazok is worth 4000. And the 2 Greater Basilisks in the catacombs are 4000 each as well, an easy kill with the Necklace of Missiles if you still have it. I tend to ignore everything in Candlekeep just talk to Koveras to get arrested and get the hell out of there after grabbing 2 scrolls in the secret library.

Unfortunately I don't have any charges left at this point in game.
The necklace has 10 charges and I spend 4 against Tranzig and 6 against the enemy party at the Cloakwood Mines entrance.

How are you segmenting your run. Is it by chapter or what?

I use autosaves to segment It.. I always start a new segment before tough parts.
My new run has 5 segments: The first ends at the area south of beregost (I start a new segment here because I use the zoning trick to get to the Carnival and there are a lot of random encounters in these areas...and some are very though, with Greater Basisliks etc..)
Second segments ends right at the beginning of the Bandit Camp, third segment ends after Cloakwood Mines III (before Daeveron) and the fourth ends when entering the palace..

Anyway I'm looking forward to see your next runs.

I'm not sure if I really want to release my new run..
After reading your first post I really like to improve at least the part in Baldur's Gate (Skipping Sarevok's wife and entering only the ground floor of the Iron Throne) before releasing the run.
Maybe I'll just redo segments 4 and 5.

btw: Are you also going to record a run? Would be interesting, to see a different run of BG.

[Phase Demon]

I'd like to record as well but I can't get fraps to record anything. Probably because I recently downgraded my video card. I'll be getting a new one next week and try again. I don't want to use anything low-tech like a VCR or a capture card. I also want to set-up RAID 0 HD array to quicken load-times. What  recording method are you using?
Also what is this zoning-trick I keep hearing about?

Regarding segmentation: Imagine you find a way to improve let's say segment 3. And redo it. I suppose you have to redo segment 4 and 5 again. Because otherwise hitpoints, inventory, charges in items and XP will become inconsistent for the next segments.

[julien]

I'd like to record as well but I can't get fraps to record anything. Probably because I recently downgraded my video card recently. I'll be getting a new one next week and try again. I don't want to use anything low-tech like a VCR or a capture card. I also want to set-up RAID 0 HD array to quicken load-times. What  recording method are you using?

Fraps doesn't work with Baldur's Gate.
I used Camtasia to record my runs.
btw: Loading times are not counted.
(There were counted in my first BG run, but Radix is going to re-time that)

Also what is this zoning-trick I keep hearing about?

Don't know how to describe it, so let me explain it with an example:
You enter the area south of Beregost and leave it to the east to Ulcaster (if you enter it from north, you're near the east exit).
Then leave Ulcaster again to the west and you'll be at the middle of the south beregost road without walking all the way down.
Saves a few seconds but also has the disadvantage of a high risk for random encounters.

Regarding segmentation: Imagine you find a way to improve let's say segment 3. And redo it. I suppose you have to redo segment 4 and 5 again. Because otherwise hitpoints, inventory, charges in items and XP will become inconsistent for the next segments.

Yep

I'm a bit curious: What time do you aim for in your run?

[Phase Demon]

Thanks for the camtasia tip.

Well I knew of the zoning trick without knowing it's name then. I use it to get to Larswood from the West. I used to call it transiting.

My estimate frankly should be around 50-55 minutes. Less if I segment also and load times are not counted.
 
But I never managed I full run without reloading. And I keep changing my routes. Nashkel Mines with Algernon's Cloak and boots of Stealth. Then I skip the boots and do the mines invisible and have a hard time hiding from the spiders later in Cloakwood. The only XP I get from the beginning is Tazok. That doesn't give me much points for stealth. But I am convinced that the 40 minutes barrier will be approached or even broken by somebody.

A lot of time is wasted during those pesky useless dialogues.  You know what I mean Candlekeep revisited is full of those idiots that are dieing to speak to you. You can't even hide in shadows to avoid them. They irritate me. I swore I will always kill Marl in the Feldepost Inn whenever I will play a normal game.

Time is wasted managing the inventory. Time is wasted navigating through shop inventories. Time is wasted when you run with oil of speed and boots of speed. It goes too fast to click perfectly and get the maximum of the speed your character has.

Also there are many tricks still to be discovered other Oil of speeds/scrolls of haste to be found. That's why I think a magic user and a thief is the best combination because he can use any trick. Imagine somebody came up with a trick using Dimension Door. A simple thief wouldn't be able to use it.  A bard though being somehow such a combination would't be as good due to his lousy thaco and lack of backstab.

[julien]

Thanks for the camtasia tip.
My estimate frankly should be around 50-55 minutes. Especially if I segment also and load times are not counted.
  

Yeah my new run is also about 50 minutes.

But I never managed I full run without reloading.

Yes, doing a single segment run is really REALLY annoying.
That's why my second run is a multi-segment run.

A lot of time is wasted during those pesky useless dialogues.  You know what I mean Candlekeep revisited is full of those idiots that are dieing to speak to you. You can't even hide in shadows to avoid them.

Hm..I don't have any problems with the dialogues in candlekeep. Almost all, except the guy in front of the candlekeep (Cadderly or something like that), can be skipped by just walking past them with an oil of speed.

It goes too fast to click perfectly and get the maximum of the speed your character has.

Yeah that's really annoying

Also there are many tricks still to be discovered other Oil of speeds/scrolls of haste to be found. That's why I think a magic user and a thief is the best combination because he can use any trick. Imagine somebody came up with a trick using Dimension Door. A simple thief wouldn't be able to use it.  A bard though being somehow such a combination would't be as good due to his lousy thaco and lack of backstab.

Dimension Door+Clairvoyance could be effective in the Labyrinth..
A Bard would be quite useless I think. I tried to run the game with a normal thief.. I made it easily through the whole game but the fight against Sarevok was almost impossible. My char had such a bad THAC0 that he just didn't hit Sarevok.
But then again a Bard has access to spells and especially the magic missile is quite effective against Sarevok.
But that's something that other people need to try out.
I'm totally focused on fighter/thief..it's my favourite class and I don't want to try to run it with any other class