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Author Topic: Aquaria  (Read 2237 times)
groobo


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« Reply #45 on: October 29, 2009, 16:13:14 »
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Since I planned to do this for my last (?) run here, I'm going to post everything I already know that you too have to know before doing this run properly. Expect a post from me tomorrow.

Trivia: Since a couple of people here told me that my idea of doing aquaria as my all time ultimate goodbye run is basically ass, I've decided to do a different, quite popular game. I've been working on it at a very slow pace for the past three months. It'll stay secret until the submission, though.
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ZenicReverie


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« Reply #46 on: October 29, 2009, 16:50:03 »
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Since I planned to do this for my last (?) run here, I'm going to post everything I already know that you too have to know before doing this run properly. Expect a post from me tomorrow.

Trivia: Since a couple of people here told me that my idea of doing aquaria as my all time ultimate goodbye run is basically ass, I've decided to do a different, quite popular game. I've been working on it at a very slow pace for the past three months. It'll stay secret until the submission, though.
Good, cause Tower of Heaven is a step down from Aquaria. Wink
Although, it would be cooler if you just stuck around. Just sayin`
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« Reply #47 on: October 30, 2009, 07:31:37 »
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Since I planned to do this for my last (?) run here, I'm going to post everything I already know that you too have to know before doing this run properly. Expect a post from me tomorrow.


Fantastic, thanks in advance for the input!
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groobo


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« Reply #48 on: October 30, 2009, 11:17:25 »
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First off all: save points.

1 - energy temple 1
2 - open waters 1
3 - kelp forest 3 (after mother nature)
4 - sun temple (after getting the crystal)
5 - abyss 1
6 - final boss

This means the run would be done in 7 segments. Those are the save points I was going to use in my run. I agree that wall-jumping can be a bit tricky, but it all comes down to memorization. Also the hardest segment of the run would be the body (the sun temple brair boost isn't so scary once you get a hang of it) - you'd have to time where it's better to take damage then heal, rather than avoid enemies. The reason behind the low number of segments is the fact that each save costs a lot of time (sometimes more than 10s) which is, most of the time (assuming you have everything memorized), more than it would allow you to save.

Energy boosting items will be your best friend during boss fights. The default attack value is 1. A spicy roll gives a +1 energy bonus, which in other words means attack x2. IIRC energy boosters save a whooping 30s on mother nature, about 15s on sun worm, and 10-15s on creator2. My plan was to get a spicy roll in energy temple 2 and kelp forest 3 (one per boss is enough), then a volcano roll in the body 2. Dealing more damage doesn't affect creator3. Getting an extra +energy item for creator5 (face) is pointless since even if it would be in your way, getting it would cost more time than it would save.

Speaking of food - I have to mention the divine soup (+2 speed, 5 heal). Following the right recipes you can get your hands on it as soon as you get to mid energy temple, then you spam it with the food glitch for the rest of the game. You can get all but one ingredient before even getting to the temple. The last missing piece is jelly oil (dropped by blue jellyfish). You can either kill those by using energy form or by binding a boulder and releasing it above them. The first option ends up being faster because until that point you'll be using royal soups (+2 speed) for faster movement. The first blue jelly you encounter after getting EF is at the bottom left of energy temple 2. Jelly oil has a drop chance of, I think, 25% or so - that explains why I wanted to save at the energy temple. The +2 speed boost saves tons of time. When testing, I was over a minute faster at open waters 1 (just after energy temple) compared to not getting the soup.

Another important thing is the food glitch - it does something more than just let you cook without wasting ingredients. After performing the glitch, there's a small time window where the game will ignore triggers. This allows you to do two things: skip certain cutscenes, and get oob (out of bounds) in a few places. I don't really remember which cutscenes can be skipped, or partially cut, so you'll have to test every possible one (there's no solid rule to which can and which cannot be avoided). As for going oob, it saves time on two occasions: you can get through kelp forest 1 to the veil 1 and use the glitch there to get to the right side of the area (which renders both of the older veil early methods slower), and you can get from veil 2 to veil 3 way sooner by using this. For some reason you can only get oob (or return to the map) either from the bottom or the right side of the map. On top of that, the area around the map change trigger can't end with a wall, or you won't be able to go out of the map. So because of those reasons, this glitch doesn't save time anywhere else. I had an idea of getting to the body early, without nature form, but the area under the tentacle is a tunnel and it's too narrow to pass even in fish form. Then again I heard rumors that some people could clip through the "singing door" in the sun temple in FF and I never managed to do that. My run ended in the testing phase, so I never really tried to pull off any of those clipping glitches - might be worth a shot, though. If all fails you can still easily enter the body in any given form.

One last tip: you can kill creator1 in less than a second with a well placed brair.

Feel free to comment or ask questions.

Also, good luck with the run.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 11:25:43 by groobo » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #49 on: October 30, 2009, 12:11:18 »
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Great info, thanks.  I agree, saving is really costly, however I think 7 segments is a little too much.  The save before Nightmare in the intro is at most +2 seconds, as is the cost of saving before AND after Mother Nature.  Particularly, awesome info about how to enter the Veil, thats much faster than the Briar rocket trick.  

Questions:
1.  In your opinion, is it worth picking up the health tank in the Song Cave? I've timed it to be around +15-20 seconds, but it lets you run through more later without stopping (or dying) (though with +5HP every 30s from divine soup this is probably unnecessary).

2.  Do you know if you NEED fish form to clip the singing door in the Sun Temple? My first run through the game ever, I did it without knowing it and was really confused the second time when I had to use the crystal.  I'll look into doing it in a regular form, just with using the food glitch.

3.  Yeah I know of the Briar kill on the final boss trick but have yet to try it in game. Its just right behind the head, right? Nature just rapes most bosses in general IIRC. At one point I wanted to see if it could be used on the Octopus boss or in lieu of Sun on the 3rd and 5th forms of the Creator (cause lets face it, if anyone ever skipped sun form it would be legendary).

4.   What would you say good benchmarks would be for each segment (by your segmentation) just for pace-keeping purposes?

Thanks a ton for the help. Your reputation around here seems well deserved  Grin
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 12:41:17 by see.blue » Report to moderator   Logged
groobo


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« Reply #50 on: October 30, 2009, 12:42:09 »
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Why would you want to save before the nightmare? You can also complete this part by simply dying (has to be timed, though). Since monster behaviour isn't random, I can't see why would you want to save anywhere before the energy temple. Also, the game tracks time all the way until you confirm the save. And mother nature uses fixed timing for her "useless" parts, so you'd see that there would be only a couple of frames difference when comparing attempts - there's no need for an extra save there.

How much health do you have by default? How much does one egg add? It's 5 and 1, right? If so, don't get the egg. You won't be taking much, if any, damage before the body and from there on most enemies do 2-3 damage at a time, so the egg wouldn't allow for even one extra hit.

You can't clip through the singing door without FF (or I just didn't have enough luck to do so). Getting that form and clipping through seems slower than just getting the crystal (rough estimate, you could time it just to be sure). What I'm really interested in is finally being sure if you can clip through the tunnel leading to the body warp trigger from under the map.

The brair placement is very specific. It's easy to memorize where to set your mouse cursor before throwing the seed, though.

I can't really answer the last question, since I never even got to the recording phase (quit already in the testing/planning one). I just remember getting 0:17 at open waters 1 and that's with getting jelly oil after the boss and without really memorizing wall-jumps. I won't be surprised if you'd get 0:16 there (I dunno, maybe it was a very low 0:17 since the game doesn't display seconds). I also wonder if the game can be beaten in under one hour with all that stuff...
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 04:29:50 by groobo » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #51 on: October 31, 2009, 09:54:29 »
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So I've been playing around with OOB tricks.  I currently want to look into whether or not its possible to scale the top left side of Veil II and use it to cut right to Veil III and possibly just drop into the Sun Temple from there. Two questions.  A. I can execute the trick and get OOB but I can't get in.  I've tried to just swim down or right into a new area (such as Veil I into Open Waters) but get nothing. I've tried equiping new armor and other things which center the camera on Naija without luck.  Haha I'm embarassed but I cant get back now. B. How does using tricks like this affect the legitimacy of the run? I've seen in Metroid Prime II runs for example, use of OOB tricks and secret worlds places the run in its own catagory. Would use of glitches like this be frowned upon by verifiers?
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« Reply #52 on: October 31, 2009, 12:45:06 »
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The only way to load maps (each one, like veil II and veil III, is in a completely different file) is through a map change trigger. So once you get oob you can get to the next area only by entering one of those. If you want to get back to the map, without changing areas, you have to use the food glitch the same way you do to get oob.

Don't worry about the verifiers - the run will fall under the now legitimate "major skips" category.

Oh and I forgot to mention: I'm still VERY curious if you can penetrate the narrow space leading to the body (yes, I know how this sounds and I did that on purpose) in fish form.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 13:09:35 by groobo » Report to moderator   Logged

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« Reply #53 on: October 31, 2009, 15:22:34 »
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Yes, you can get by the tentacle in fish form
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groobo


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« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2009, 16:43:13 »
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No, I mean get to the body from outside of the map. The normal way around you can get past the tentacle in any form.
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« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2009, 23:21:10 »
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Oh and I forgot to mention: I'm still VERY curious if you can penetrate the narrow space leading to the body (yes, I know how this sounds and I did that on purpose) in fish form.
hehe, fish form... that's the funny part right?
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groobo


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« Reply #56 on: November 01, 2009, 02:07:59 »
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Ummm yeah... yeah, that.
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« Reply #57 on: November 01, 2009, 13:48:41 »
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I've been playing around with the OOB in Abyss I all morning and it seems that you can't get OOB on either of the right-hand exits to the map.  The triggers seem to extend all the way to the edge of the map.  Even with divine soup and fish form I food glitch then dash for the edge of the map and I just leave the screen, then it blacks and transitions back to Abyss II  Undecided.
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« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2009, 15:25:18 »
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Try going at full speed then doing the glitch (without stopping). Memorize the exact placement of the trigger and start the glitch as late as possible. You could add a wall jump instead of the dash after the glitch. If all fails try using the other right-hand side exit. I know it's possible since I got oob there before.
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« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2009, 12:45:16 »
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Groobo, have you ever looked in to skipping the Energy God by getting behind him?  When you push him back as far as he'll go the ceiling is high enough that you can lure him into doing his bite (not the upwards or downwards swats, he has to lunge forward and bite), using +speed items boost to the ceiling above him then almost get behind him.  Every time he recovers and stands up just as I'm getting behind his back shoulder, it hits me and knocks be all the way back in.  Literally, it looks like if I get another inch I'll be in the clear.   Do you have any idea if the hitbox around his tail extends all the way up to the ceiling walling me in or this is just not me being fast enough (in the save file i'm using I only have access to +1 speed items, I'll try tonight with divine soup).
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