N64 Banjo-Tooie any%/100%

[Jacky Durand]

Okay - looks fine and with really good Mumbo skips.
Here are my first thoughts - but more may come!

- You REALLY don't wanna get the cheese Jiggy in CCL- it requires to plant a bean, get Mumbo to the pad (have to do that anyway for Pot O'Gold), hatch a floatum floatus and crawl to the Jiggy as Banjo. This goes without mentioning the rather difficult doublejump inside the cheese, which is hard in a SS-run. It also takes a long time to work your way back from inside the cheese.

- Kickball really takes forever!

- It's actually impossible to get the shack pack Jiggy close to Weldar without beating Weldar - so you'll have to skip that one unfortunately

- Just go to JRL for Tiptup-jiggy after HFP or use the warp-silos. It's also an idea to get there directly from HFP through the door you open as Banjo alone.

- It's just a shame with that TDL Jinjo. It may take 2 minutes to get, but I think it will pay off to get all the Jinjo's in the end...

[mike89]

Yeah, the cheese wedge is one I didn't really like, but I ended up going for it because it has a Jinjo as well, so effectively counts double.

Anyway, I decided to time it. Here's my basis for timing:

- At about 24:50 in Dragorn's segment 10, he picks up the strawberry castle Jiggy. From here he goes to the cheese wedge, if you did -not- go to the cheese wedge you'd just fall off and die here, let's say at 24:55.
- Dragorn dies in the cheese wedge at 27:14, so that's 2:19 spent on that directly.

Now the three indirect costs need to be added:
- Finding the bean in the first place (which, given there are two, can be guesstimated at half the time spent in that area at the start, so another 20 seconds)
- The cutscene that plays where the plant grows after Mumbo uses Rain Dance (Mumbo himself is not an additional cost, because you're already using him for Pot O' Gold). This clocks in at just seven seconds
- Hatching the egg. This is just the time between using the flight pad the first time and using it the second time flying up and hatching the egg versus going straight to the Pot O' Gold, and works out to about 20 seconds (give or take a few, this section had a couple of mistakes in it).

That's 2:19 + 20 + 7 + 20 = 3:06 for two Jiggies, or 1:33 per Jiggy. Sounds like a good deal to me (compared to the Ordnance timing I did earlier, for example).

However, one question - that area requires Sack Pack to get across to. Can you just take regular damage off that type of terrain or does it throw you back to the start (a la Wading Boots terrain)? If the latter, then it would be substantially trickier, but I'd say still possible to get there, by using the bee for damage. That'd add a few more seconds, but nowhere near the two minutes needed to match Ordnance.

EDIT: I forgot about the second part of the analysis, which is to then add the marginal time for Mumbo and the Pot O' Gold too.
- At 10:37 in the segment, Dragorn travels back to Mumbo, whereas if you didn't do any of the Mumbo-related stuff you'd just go into the Central Cavern to the split-up pads. It'd probably take about 20 seconds to get there, so let's say 11:00.
- At 13:51, all the Mumbo stuff is done and he reaches the split-up pads. Let's say 2:51 total then - you'd also have to add the marginal time for one extra Glowbo but I don't know which ones this run is going to get yet.
- If you weren't going to do either the Cheese Wedge or the Pot O' Gold, you would just die after the trash can, at roughly 18:14.
- Dragorn dies at 21:04, but that includes a small detour for the honeycomb piece, unnecessary in this run. You could probably save six seconds or so not going for it. That's 20:58, so another 2:44.

That takes the total for the three Jiggies to 3:06 + 2:51 + 2:44 = 8:41, or 2:54 per Jiggy. Mumbo may not be worth it after all.

Worth noting is that any character can enter the Cheese Wedge, and therefore Kazooie could just fly in and collect the Jinjo with a CK egg or Leg Spring (possibly then dropping down onto something else, such as the trash can?), which with extended Beak Bombs wouldn't take long at all. That'd push the average out even further. EDIT2: alternative plan: send the bee in! There's an eyeball plant out the front, so just save that one for last.

Something I can't remember though: is there any reason you can't do Pot O' Gold without Rain Dance? I'm fairly certain that you can get across there with Kazooie solo; I'm less certain about how long that would take.

EDIT3: Kickball is done because, in a single segment, you need the Stony to determine the Prison Compound code. If there are only a few possible codes, or it's possible to work out what it will be in some other way (like being related to the game file or something), then it may be quicker to just enter all possible combinations as BK and ignore Kickball (you have to go to Prison Compound anyway for the easy Columns Vault Jiggy, and there is some cleanup in GGM, so I really don't want to skip this one).

[Jacky Durand]

I forgot about the sack pack, you'll have to learn to get the cheese jiggy - it's just a further waste of time. And as you said yourself, the Jinjo in there is relatively easy taken with a CK egg (or the bee).
Also I want to point it out once again: you don't just do that double-jump. It may take a whole minute to pull off!

You can't play the Pot O'Gold game without the rainbow, as there is a timed switch that opens the top door for just a limited time (Maybe you should try to use Glide to get there, I'm not sure it's possible though)

There are only 2-3 possible codes for the prison compound. I only remember two right now:
- star, sun, star, moon, moon
- sun, moon, star, moon, sun

[Essentia]

Essentia: That trick is NTSC only:(

Oh, I forgot you're a PAL guy.  That's too bad you won't be able to use it.

It's very possible to get inside the Pot o' Gold without the rainbow; I made a video that shows how:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7mqFD9JDLQ

By doing this, you might be able to avoid Mumbo completely on CC.

As for the prison compound code, I remember reading somewhere that it was dependent on which save file you use; for example, if you always use the third save file, the code will always be the same.  I haven't tested this though, so I don't know if it's actually true.

[Jacky Durand]

Well, that should decide!

I remember the last code now:
star, moon, sun, star, star

Experience tells me that the code is generated as you enter the Prison Compound. When I did a segmented speedrun of this I entered the Compound without doing the code in my first visit to MT - then returned in a later segment -  and in another run I waited until later to even enter the compound. In the first run the code was always the same regardless of save-file, and in the second run it changed from run to run.

[mike89]

OK, that Prison Compound stuff is good to know. Essentia, ironically, you probably read that it had to do with save files off me - this is back when I didn't thoroughly test things and spread misinformation as a result. Sorry about that. >_>

A couple more timings that I did:
- Kickball takes nine and a half minutes for two Jiggies - with the new Prison Compound information, these are almost certainly out.
- I thought Targitzan's Relic was a bit longer than it appeared, so I timed that one too. It takes approximately 2:15 to actually -do- the quest (from collecting the Jiggy on the roof of Targitzan's temple, but more on that later), plus another ~50 seconds to make it available to you. That's 3:05, longer than Ordnance even, but perhaps enough to keep it safe for the time being.

Now, a couple of things to consider before finalising the route. Later in the game it's just going to be absurd to be doing things as Kazooie solo with two HP, particularly in a single segment, so I want to pick up four early extra honeycombs and cash them in (really, even one will probably do).

Locations of extra honeycomb pieces in the first two worlds:
- behind the start - requires Stony, out of the question
- near the cow - minor detour
- inside the Treasure Chamber (!!!)

- inside GGM train station, easy
- in a rock out the front of the prospector's hut
- in a cave near the crushing shed

- gimmie behind Honey B's hive

Four of those seven will do just fine. No points for guessing which four I'm looking at.

Now, to the MT route. This is largely going to depend on how long it takes to get out of Targitzan's temple versus deathwarping out. I suspect the latter is quicker, in which case I'll just opt for Dragorn's route (possibly removing Targitzan's Relic as necessary - this would pick up the Jiggy atop the temple, turn left and Beak Bomb straight into the honeycomb piece above the cow, pick up that Jiggy, Jinjo on the bridge, and drop down to Prison Compound).

In the unlikely event that it works out faster to escape Targitzan's temple than deathwarp, my route would change thus:
- Pick up Breegull Blaster on the first occasion that you go past Mumbo's skull
- After flying to the Jiggy atop the temple, Beak Buster and go straight in
- Once done, cross the bridge and do the cow Jiggy, drop to Prison Compound, open Dilberta's jail, use the warp pad to go back to start and exit.

Actually, the route change to omit the kickball games means that the Jade Snake Jiggy has to be done on the first trip - I've never actually got this Jiggy without CK eggs before so I'll have to learn the timing on the jump. And potentially get a better controller. It would simply slot in before Grip Grab in Dragorn's route, nothing special there. This also means that we get to 8 Jiggies regardless of Targitzan's relic, or lucky Jinjo combinations.

Any other thoughts to share?

[AmazingAmpharos]

Why do you need Mumbo for the pot o gold? If you glide with Kazooie alone from the switch to open the pot, you can barely make it in. Was that not generally known, or does making the trip as Kazooie alone cost some time in the route or something?

[Unreal]

Off topic from the any% discussion but I have a question about the cheat run... Why does the runner collect all those notes and learn some moves? Was there a certain % to be obtained or something?  

[mike89]

I recalled gliding being too slow to cover the gap. Apparently it's not, and it solves a rather tricky route problem I had.

Anyway, here's my revised list of skipped Jiggies:

ISLE O' HAGS (0)
Removed: 1 Jinjo (big T-rex)

MAYAHEM TEMPLE (1)
Mayan Kickball

GLITTER GULCH MINE (0)
Removed: Ordnance Storage

WITCHYWORLD (5)
Star Spinner
Dodgem Dome
Saucer of Peril
Top of the Inferno
Boggy's kids

JOLLY ROGER'S LAGOON (0)

TERRYDACTYLAND (3)
Oogle Boogles
Styracosaurus family
Terry's eggs

GRUNTY INDUSTRIES (5)
Weldar
Shack Pack Jiggy
Six rabbits
Quality Control
Clinker's Cavern

HAILFIRE PEAKS (4)
Chilli Billi + Chilly Willy
Alien family
Sabreman
Colosseum Kickball

CLOUD CUCKOOLAND (2)
Mr Fit
Cheese Wedge
Removed: Canary Mary
Removed: 1984 safe

At the moment, my threshold for taking a Jiggy out of the route is about four minutes. The T-Rex Jinjo took about 3:31, for example, and Canary Mary (CCL) was actually under three, whereas Sabreman (which I considered removing) appeared to clock in at over four minutes, so it remains skipped.

Witchyworld's five combined will save something like 20 minutes, not going anywhere near Mumbo. I've just discovered that you actually do have to get the van, as there's a Jinjo in the Area 51 section behind one of the van doors. D:

Also the speed of the Shack Pack Jiggy after Weldar still isn't enough to get Weldar into the route, as you're probably looking at about ten minutes marginal time for Weldar alone, once you count making the Mumbo pad available, using it, sending the washer over, and then the four minutes in the actual fight.

Unreal: I need 505 notes for Claw Clamber Boots, which is required to access Cauldron Keep no matter how many cheats you use.

[Jacky Durand]

The Slumber jump isn't hard to do at all on the xbox - don't know about the N64 though.

Also are you sure about the 3 minutes for Canary Mary? Remember you have to beat her twice in GGM to make her appear in CCL.

[mike89]

Well, it's three minutes on top of doing race 1 in GGM already, so the only marginal time consideration is races 2 and 3 (since Canary Mary in CCL is already on the path to the bee), plus the short cutscene after race 2. It worked out to about 2:50 by my timing.